I’m a predatory older woman in a newly open relationship (OK, I'm 35). I like a stupid young guy (25),
want to make out with him, and have permission to do so. He has a
girlfriend, but has not even had the "are you my girlfriend" talk, much
less "how exclusive are we / what's okay for me to do". This ambiguity
has not stopped him from kissing me once, some other woman twice and,
actually, that's only the ones we know about. The other woman and I are
making friends over this, and nobody senses any particular malice in the
situation, only immaturity.
Am I in the clear for making out, because no contract is explicitly being broken and I have clearly stated her intentions to not hurt anyone?
Or should I definitely wait until honest communication is initiated and had between two stupid young people, who seem intent on avoiding all such topics, and are probably going to screw each other up no matter what I do?
I
started off firmly in the latter camp, but am now on a slippery slope of
"how responsible for other people and their boundaries do I really have
to be, if I've got my own shit in order? Surely it stops *somewhere.*
-Predatory Older Woman
Dear POW:
First off, congratulations on your newly-open relationship and on your maturity in making friends with your kissing-buddy’s other kissing buddy (at least the one you know about).
To answer your actual question, I’d like to point out that you are not responsible for anybody’s relationships except for your own. I’m going to get a lot of flak for this, but my spouse agrees with me as far as I know, so I’m OK with being 2 against the world.
Incidentally, I happen to appreciate people who don’t approach me to tell me to accept their interpretation of the Bible as Truth, who don’t judge my lack of monogamy out loud in my presence, and who don’t tell me they just slept with my spouse, so perhaps I should divorce now (I’ve got that all under control, and my spouse has already told me, thanks).
You and your Young Friend are responsible for your relationship; Young Friend and the other people involved are responsible for their own relationships, and it’s not your job to run those relationships yourself. I’d in fact find you intrusive to do so.
I’m not proud of it, but I will admit that the first person I became emotionally involved with would have been cheating had we become much more physical, and if his wife knew the extent of the attachment, I’m not sure she would have been pleased at that. But I trusted him to keep his own confidences when he wanted to and to pursue an external relationship that would allow him to get what he was missing and thereby minimize frustrations in the primary relationship. They had a don’t ask, don’t tell policy. Telling the wife would have negated the “don’t tell” part; it’s the husband’s responsibility to break and keep established policy when he sees fit. For my part, I protected my marriage in the best way I knew how, which was to tell my spouse everything that I found relevant as soon as it was going on.
That said, would I have wanted to be married to that first person I became “involved” with? No way. I wanted to marry someone honest, and it’s my own job to find such a person, persuade them somehow to love me, and maintain open and honest communication going both ways ad inifintum. At the time, I wanted to play with someone dishonest (well, I wanted to play with this individual, who happened to be dishonest), partially because I felt that I don’t have much other choice in play partners in the society in which I live. Since I’ve found that not to be the case, I’ve upped my standards and now insist on honesty in all of my partners.
Here’s why I changed my mind in favor of not getting physically involved with a cheater: there’s a huge disadvantage to partners who aren’t communicating with their primaries--they’re skittish (even though I’ve only experienced this once, it’s not something I want to test considering the number of times I’ve heard about this tendency from others). It’s very hard to get any sort of commitment from cheaters, and here I’m not talking about marriage (apparently, that’s fairly easy, as there are lots of cheating spouses out there). I’m only talking about making plans. If you’re involved with someone who’s cheating, plans can always get canceled at a moment’s notice if the primary threatens to get wind of it, or if the cheating partner has a moment of remorse (this seems to happen a lot. Not sure why they keep cheating if they’re going to feel bad and cancel a significant portion of the time, but I’ve never been in those shoes, so maybe someone can comment and tell me). This model--where plans are always tentative--only works for me if I’m carrying around a really good book such that I don’t mind being let go.
The situation with your Young Friend seems like it’s entirely different in scale, both for the primary and for you, so that’s unlikely to be a problem. Youngsters are extremely good judges of character (although people who are about to tie the knot often are not...), and your Young Friend and the primary are going to be thinking of any number of things when figuring out when and how long to be together. If communication or trust becomes a problem for them, they’ll react accordingly. You’re probably right, statistically--they’re likely going to screw themselves up without your help. Most cheaters do get found out, if that’s what your Young Friend is in fact doing. You’re not the only hope.
The last consideration I’d like to posit is a famous Dan Savage suggestion: if you’re involved with someone significantly younger than yourself, follow the campsite rule: leave them better than you found them. You as the older party are in a privileged position to have tested out and experienced emotions and responses to love in its various forms, and you can do a great deal of good by educating your Stupid Young Friend in respect, boundaries, communication, and other protocols that people tend to follow well. It’s an investment in your Stupid Young Friend’s future relationships, even if the current one doesn’t hold for long, and will help him drop the Stupid from his name. You can do the educating in a memorable way, and you can even do it between kisses. Or you can insist on complete propriety until you’re happy with the state of communication he has with his primary. It just depends on what your priorities are. My guess is, if you’re feeling uncertain enough to ask, something would benefit from a change, and given your greater level of experience, it seems like your responsibility to initiate that. I personally wouldn’t play with your Young Friend, but I would have before. You’re getting your feet wet and figuring out your personal boundaries right now, too, and there’s nothing wrong with giving yourself permission to make mistakes as long as you recognize and learn from them.
*******
More questions or comments? Bring ‘em on! polysaturated@rocketmail.com.
Am I in the clear for making out, because no contract is explicitly being broken and I have clearly stated her intentions to not hurt anyone?
Or should I definitely wait until honest communication is initiated and had between two stupid young people, who seem intent on avoiding all such topics, and are probably going to screw each other up no matter what I do?
-Predatory Older Woman
Dear POW:
First off, congratulations on your newly-open relationship and on your maturity in making friends with your kissing-buddy’s other kissing buddy (at least the one you know about).
To answer your actual question, I’d like to point out that you are not responsible for anybody’s relationships except for your own. I’m going to get a lot of flak for this, but my spouse agrees with me as far as I know, so I’m OK with being 2 against the world.
Incidentally, I happen to appreciate people who don’t approach me to tell me to accept their interpretation of the Bible as Truth, who don’t judge my lack of monogamy out loud in my presence, and who don’t tell me they just slept with my spouse, so perhaps I should divorce now (I’ve got that all under control, and my spouse has already told me, thanks).
You and your Young Friend are responsible for your relationship; Young Friend and the other people involved are responsible for their own relationships, and it’s not your job to run those relationships yourself. I’d in fact find you intrusive to do so.
I’m not proud of it, but I will admit that the first person I became emotionally involved with would have been cheating had we become much more physical, and if his wife knew the extent of the attachment, I’m not sure she would have been pleased at that. But I trusted him to keep his own confidences when he wanted to and to pursue an external relationship that would allow him to get what he was missing and thereby minimize frustrations in the primary relationship. They had a don’t ask, don’t tell policy. Telling the wife would have negated the “don’t tell” part; it’s the husband’s responsibility to break and keep established policy when he sees fit. For my part, I protected my marriage in the best way I knew how, which was to tell my spouse everything that I found relevant as soon as it was going on.
That said, would I have wanted to be married to that first person I became “involved” with? No way. I wanted to marry someone honest, and it’s my own job to find such a person, persuade them somehow to love me, and maintain open and honest communication going both ways ad inifintum. At the time, I wanted to play with someone dishonest (well, I wanted to play with this individual, who happened to be dishonest), partially because I felt that I don’t have much other choice in play partners in the society in which I live. Since I’ve found that not to be the case, I’ve upped my standards and now insist on honesty in all of my partners.
Here’s why I changed my mind in favor of not getting physically involved with a cheater: there’s a huge disadvantage to partners who aren’t communicating with their primaries--they’re skittish (even though I’ve only experienced this once, it’s not something I want to test considering the number of times I’ve heard about this tendency from others). It’s very hard to get any sort of commitment from cheaters, and here I’m not talking about marriage (apparently, that’s fairly easy, as there are lots of cheating spouses out there). I’m only talking about making plans. If you’re involved with someone who’s cheating, plans can always get canceled at a moment’s notice if the primary threatens to get wind of it, or if the cheating partner has a moment of remorse (this seems to happen a lot. Not sure why they keep cheating if they’re going to feel bad and cancel a significant portion of the time, but I’ve never been in those shoes, so maybe someone can comment and tell me). This model--where plans are always tentative--only works for me if I’m carrying around a really good book such that I don’t mind being let go.
The situation with your Young Friend seems like it’s entirely different in scale, both for the primary and for you, so that’s unlikely to be a problem. Youngsters are extremely good judges of character (although people who are about to tie the knot often are not...), and your Young Friend and the primary are going to be thinking of any number of things when figuring out when and how long to be together. If communication or trust becomes a problem for them, they’ll react accordingly. You’re probably right, statistically--they’re likely going to screw themselves up without your help. Most cheaters do get found out, if that’s what your Young Friend is in fact doing. You’re not the only hope.
The last consideration I’d like to posit is a famous Dan Savage suggestion: if you’re involved with someone significantly younger than yourself, follow the campsite rule: leave them better than you found them. You as the older party are in a privileged position to have tested out and experienced emotions and responses to love in its various forms, and you can do a great deal of good by educating your Stupid Young Friend in respect, boundaries, communication, and other protocols that people tend to follow well. It’s an investment in your Stupid Young Friend’s future relationships, even if the current one doesn’t hold for long, and will help him drop the Stupid from his name. You can do the educating in a memorable way, and you can even do it between kisses. Or you can insist on complete propriety until you’re happy with the state of communication he has with his primary. It just depends on what your priorities are. My guess is, if you’re feeling uncertain enough to ask, something would benefit from a change, and given your greater level of experience, it seems like your responsibility to initiate that. I personally wouldn’t play with your Young Friend, but I would have before. You’re getting your feet wet and figuring out your personal boundaries right now, too, and there’s nothing wrong with giving yourself permission to make mistakes as long as you recognize and learn from them.
*******
More questions or comments? Bring ‘em on! polysaturated@rocketmail.com.
No comments:
Post a Comment